Are you tired of chasing expectations and still feeling like it's never enough?
In today's episode of the Soul-aligned Self-Care Podcast,
I sat down with the wise, witty, and deeply grounded Barbara Burgess.
She is the author of the book Enough, Finding Peace in a World of Distractions, Hustle and Expectations.
Barbara is a mother, executive, and unapologetic, dark, chocolate lover
who's embraced the messy, beautiful journey of self-worth and self-discovery.
She is also the founder of Corluma, a Chicago-based consultant firm rooted in heart and light.
Together, we explore what it really means to stop striving and start remembering your inherent
worth. With warmth and vulnerability, Barbara shares how to reclaim your time, energy, and truth.
One small shift at a time. This is the conversation you didn't know you needed.
Let's get into it.
[Music]
You're listening to the Soul-aligned Self-Care Podcast.
I'm your host, Tina Stinson, and I had a stroke at the age of 39 from stress
and burnout that shook my world. Now I'm laying it all out.
The deep-level self-care practices and mindset shifts that I needed that can be healthy,
balanced, and thriving. Join me in this intimate space as we explore healing,
resilience, and a soul's journey to alignment. This is where real conversations about
deep-level self-care happen. Let's get into it.
[Music]
Hello and welcome to the Soul-aligned Self-Care Podcast. How are you doing today?
I'm doing great. It's a pleasure to be here.
Yeah, it's a pleasure to meet you, and I'm excited about today's interview.
To get started, I would like to just get right into it and ask you the question,
before you wrote your book enough and before you started Corluma, am I saying that correctly?
Yeah, yep.
Who were you and what drew you into this type of work that you're doing today?
Oh my gosh, what a deep question. It seems so simple, but it's so profound.
But I will say it's interesting that you asked that question at this moment in time because
I was talking to a friend and we were talking about frameworks, right?
And I'm in a space in my life where I'm mourning certain frameworks, things that
who I was, what I was, what that phase was that's no longer. And so the timing of the question
to say, who was I before that? I think someone who was not living in her body as much as I
am now, the sense of inhabiting myself and who I am. I think I'm somebody who was always a seeker
and explorer, you know, always cared about the big questions, the deep things, what mattered,
but was still going through a routine that I thought was what I was supposed to do, right?
That was, you know, those expectations may have slightly tweaked over the years, but it was really
somebody kind of going through the pastures that way. So, you know, from the time I graduated
college, it was like, okay, what's the most logical job to get? Which the next level up? What's the
money you get? What's all of those things, right? And I did do a big pivot back at one point in time
where I went to out of, you know, working for, you know, financial services firm into something
that was more appeared to be mission-based, but, you know, it was a lot of recreation of the same things
under a different umbrella. Yeah. And I spent 22 years there and I learned a lot and I let a lot
and I saw a lot and I, you know, gained a lot of skills, but at the same time, that person compared to
the person who's talking to, you know, sure, they have, they have hints of the same, you know, their DNA is
the same, but wildly different human than the one who's done all this stuff in the last couple of
years. Yeah. And do you still work in corporate? Yeah, I mean, through my own business, so Coralum is
my own business, and so I do executive coaching and those kinds of things, but not for anybody else.
Yes. You don't really work in corporate anymore. You work with corporate. I work with corporate.
Yes. Good, good clarification. Now, I do not work in corporate at all. Yes. So you're, you stepped off
of that, the hamster wheel of, yeah. I guess you could call it hustle. This could be so many different
names for it, but. Well, I listened to your podcast that, you know, that was just most recently
posted and I was like, yes, yes, yes, where you talk about that journey and what it is to be on that
route, it was just so resonating. So I was eager to have this conversation because yes, a hustle and
all the things never pausing enough to know that there's a human inhabiting this body.
Yeah. Yeah. What you said when you first started talking about living in your body is I feel like
that's really like it just went by really quick, but I want to go back to that because I feel like
that's so important because I lived, as I talked about in that last episode, I lived on like that,
I call it the hamster wheel where you're just kind of like doing, doing, doing, going, doing, going,
and and you're way too busy to really pay attention to the way you feel or what you want.
And when you reconnect to that part of yourself and you start to feel things,
that's when things start to shift, that's when you really get to know yourself. And I think that's
so important. I would like to ask you the question about your book. Now I haven't read your book yet.
I know your person is sending me one and I'm very excited about that. I love reading. So I'm very
excited about it, but can you tell me a little bit about the birth of the idea of writing the book and
how you started and got into it and what the process was like for that? Yeah. Well, I say often,
and I'll share one of the first stories in the book, because in the book, the title is enough,
but in the book you get introduced to two characters, enough and not enough, mixed in with my
real life stories. And the thing that really launched it was, I had given notice at my job,
but hadn't yet fully made the transition. And what I said was, all of a sudden, there were some cracks
in the sidewalk, right? So you have these moments to actually be existing and get off that hamster
wheel for a second. And I had been puttering and I had taken some old sidewalk chalk we had and I
put it in a jar and I set it out on my front. We live in this city here in Chicago. And I had just,
made some colored circles to get it started. And then I just had written, like, please write
chalk or draw on my sidewalk. And then I was working on my laptop and I'm sitting on the porch,
and it's deep enough that you can't see up there. It was 100-year-old house. And so I'm typing
away and I hear, you know, a child and parent come by and, you know, the child clearly wanted a chalk.
I mean, I had with the invitation and all the temptation, I was, you know, doing the equivalent of
tugging on their parents, you know, him or whatever it would have been. But, and they were reluctant,
you could tell, they're on their phone, they're probably trying to get to something else, but they,
you know, the parent finally sort of resigned and I hear this little boy chalking and drawing. And it was
just, I want to cry thinking about it, it was so beautiful to hear him talking to himself. So it was
like, ooh, little blue here, oh, did it? Like he's having this, like, musical, you know, journey and
eventually you hear the parent join in, oh, that's beautiful. Oh, look at that, did it? And so I'm just
literally in this space that's just sweet, right? And I kind of wanted to see what was going on,
but I didn't want to interrupt what I felt was a very sacred space for the two of them, right? And so
it wasn't until I heard all the footsteps gone that I, like, made my way down and I'm expecting to
look down and see, you know, a scribble that is trying to resemble a giraffe, but looks like, you know,
a piece of bubble gum, I don't know. And what I saw, like, took my breath away, stopped me in my tracks,
and he had taken these colorful circles I had done and he had put rings around them. He had made a whole
universe. And this thing was stunning, like, beautiful, you know, again, I, I, I paused, I stopped and I just
cried. And that was when I say I felt her, the sense of enough, it was just this in that really sacred
pause in, in, we were talking before because for those of you who were watching the video behind
her Tina has an octopus and I love the octopus, but I felt like these octopus tendrils, like,
reached out around and grabbed me and hugged me. And it was so like a sense of something,
like primal almost, just old peace, old possibilities, but something not touched in decades and decades
and decades, right, of living. And so that was when I say I met her, that's when I met enough, I met
the sense of that. And, you know, and then she began to write along, you know, and so it was literally,
like, these moments I would have in my life that were these stories of enough in contrast when I was
really having direct experiences of not enough. And so I started writing them down. I was just like,
I just wanted to capture it. It was like, beautiful to me. And at some point I thought, okay, this is
supposed to be a book. I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this thing, right? And so I would just,
I was still doing my job. I was still in the other space, crap, you know, capturing it in the cracks,
till eventually I was like, I'm just gonna get this thing out there, right? And even that had a certain
context around it because I've worked for authors before. I know how that process, all that kind of stuff,
it was not meant to be anything in any defined way other than a labor of love to put out there, right?
And so even in the publishing of it, like I did it imperfectly, right? You know, it was not about,
I had to control that perfectionistic, overworking, overachieving person and be like, no, no, no, no,
just get it done and get it birthed. We have other things to do, right? But, but that was a big
turning point for me because I began to see and feel more, we were talking about body, feel in my body
when I was in that space of enough, when she was sitting in my lap, when I saw her through the
eyes of a friend at a coffee shop, versus the opposite, which is when, you know, those internal
critiquing voices comparison, you know, giving my boundaries to all those kinds of things would
happen. And I would hear that other voice of not enough, you know, and he was familiar. He was way
more familiar to me than enough. And so it became this journey, really, for me, of engaging with these
two characters that hasn't stopped, by the way. I love how, I love how they're not enough as a man.
And the enough is a woman. Well, and it's funny because I, you know, it's not a particular
critique on men in general. On the other hand, we do live in a very patriarchal society, and women
have been raised to be out of our bodies, to be in a lot of self-doubt, to question, to never
radically prioritize ourselves in a way, because it's terrifying to the systems, right? And so it
was that way for me, you know, the places where I felt not enough was a little bit more in the
masculine values of linear, logical, you know, looking out there to measure and achieve, where
enough has that like big mama feeling, or it's like, oh, honey. I think it's so accurate. I think
it's perfect. And it's not, as you said, like a man-hating type of thing. It's just very, yeah,
very masculine. I love, I want to go back to the point where you said, um, old piece or something
like that, you said. And I thought that was so powerful because old piece to me, I mean, what that
means to me is when was like the last time, and I asked this question to my clients sometime, when
was the last time you felt like yourself? Like you felt like you were just completely like in your
body, you, and most of the time most women, including myself, say something like eight years old, you know,
nine years old. And I'm like, God, that's so like terrible and sad, and it, but it makes so much
sense because that's when we really start to move into that program, like, yeah, want us to move into.
Yes. And, and so it's, it's very, very interesting. And also you mentioned like comparison. And so I
would love to talk a little bit about that because we, and I think both men and women do this, but
we compare ourselves to what others are doing. And one of the things I always say is this, there's
never a comparison because there's no exact two that can compare. Like there's no, there's no comparison.
And if you really think about that, it's true. But like can you tell me a little bit about what can,
what can people do to feel enough in there? Yeah. And well, stop comparing. Yeah. And I think the,
even for myself, like I still compare, I just turned the volume down significantly because I'm
more aware, right? And in the book I talk about, I mean, there was a big moment when I was like 12 that
I remember seeing a postcard in a store and it was Henry Van Dyke was the author, but it was the,
you know, it was the, do it use what talents you possess. The woods would be silent if no birds
sang except those that sang the best. And it just like touched me in a deep way because at that
time I loved to sing, but I had already decided I wasn't good enough to do that, you know, and I was
already in that comparison of like, okay, compare me to the, you know, girl in the school play, compare
me to the person I'm seeing on TV, compare me to you like this. And I talk in the book about this
ladder of comparison. And the metaphor I say is like, imagine a ladder that's sitting on the earth.
And it goes up and up and up and up to a point where we can't see it anymore because everybody gets
to be on one rung of that ranking. So when it comes to singing, I'm somewhere, somebody else is
above me, somebody else is below me, but we're all hanging on to one of the rungs. But the, and that is
the model unconsciously I had been orienting to without realizing it, right? And when we do that,
first of all, it doesn't serve anybody. Second of all, it's very not safe in the sense that even the
person, let's say it's a ladder of wealth, the person at the very, very top, you know, the wind blows
hard that ladder sway is the markets change. And that person's no longer on the top. And even if
they're the number one, they're the wealthiest person in the whole world, it doesn't mean they have
good relationships or love in their life or anything like that, right? And so I realized I was
constantly doing this comparing routine. And yet it had no meaningful purpose or positive outcome.
And in the book, I talk about little c versus big c comparison. So, you know, little c comparison is
like competitive athletes who watch back a video, see what the other tennis player did and said,
"Oh, I'm going to work on this stroke so that I can do this better." Or, you know, we talked about
rehabbing a home. You notice the floor is not quite level at this point. Okay, that's where I'm
comparing this side to that side. And we're going to do something about those are little c comparisons.
They serve. There's no problem. But what I found for myself is what I would get trapped in is
that big c comparison. So, and I share a story in the book where I walked into this, I'm so proud of
myself because I've increasingly leaning into accepting my body and loving it increasingly. I say,
you know, it's a journey always. But I bought this pair of like Ivory Cullard vegan leather pants.
I don't wear vegan pants. Vegan leather pants. I don't wear Ivory at the time, right? And I was so
proud of myself. I'm like, "Good job, honey." You know, and I don't know whatever top I had on it. I'm
sitting in this coffee shop and I'm just feeling all proud of myself. But in walks this stunning
gorgeous model equivalent body in vegan leather Ivory pants, who like literally like,
did you just step off the plane from Paris because you look like I mean, that's how it was. And
immediately I was in the toilet. Immediately. Like I kind of want to cry thinking about it because
all of a sudden, you know, in that moment, you're like, "I'm worthless." I'm not like, "Well, who did
I think I was?" Oh, that's the not enough voice. There he is. Oh, see, I always told you whatever it was.
And what happened actually? Nothing. I said they're loving myself. Someone walked in like that.
Transactually, that's what happened, but where I went with it was this comparison. And not only was
she like on the letter, she wasn't even in my vicinity. She wasn't even in my territory. I could
never, if I starved myself the rest of my life, I could never look like that, right? So what purpose
did that serve me in the comparison? Nothing. Absolutely nothing except to demotivate, make me feel
less than all that kind of stuff. And what I realized was how rampant that was despite the fact that I'm
a pretty self-aware human, I've done personal development, blah, blah, blah, but there I was, you know? And
as enough came into my life, you know, there was just this sweeter sense of like, "Oh, we don't need to do
that." Oh, you know, like, "No, that doesn't have to be that way." And you think about, you know, your
journey in life and your body and energy and life force, why would I put it there? If it was dollars,
I was investing, I would never put it there. It's a terrible investment. Yeah. And yet, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the time.
Yeah, that's, you know, and I think, I think that, like, I think it's so important to be aware. Like,
that's the first thing, to be aware of that voice. And, and I call my, I have a couple of names for my
negative voice and, and one of them is Debbie Downer or negative Nancy. Love that episode. Nothing against
Debbie or Nancy. Yes. Nothing against those, those women, those feelings, I'm sorry, anything, but
it's just, it makes me laugh, especially Debbie Downer, because if you know where that comes from,
from Saturday, Saturday Night Live. And if you don't search it up, it's so hilarious. Yeah.
It's so funny. Yeah. And so like, I automatically just picture that woman's face looking at the
camera, the, "Mwah, wah, wah, you know?" And so like, it, it like kind of reduces the power of that
negative voice. And, and the first step to that, obviously, is being aware. Like, well, and you
asked, and I didn't answer the question, what do people do about it? The first step is to notice it.
And what I have been supporting people to do is exactly what you just named is like, make an
identity. Yeah. And what that does for you. And again, for me, once, enough and not enough, at
least I could notice there were two characters here, but neither of them, I mean, it wasn't me,
right? That not enough voice, when it's so fused internally, it's difficult to separate from. But
when I pull it out here and give it a name, for me, not enough for you, Debbie Downer, then all of a
sudden it's something separate for me. And I can have distance. And even for me, and it sounds like you
have too with that, that, you know, audio version. Yeah. You can have a sense of humor about it.
You know, you can have perspective. You can catch it. It's like it's some want, you know, in my not
enough person, like, I've got a visual like he's, you know, he's, he thinks he's Mr. Fancypants,
but is really like such a caricature, right? It's like somebody who's like thinks they're a king,
but the robes are worn. They pulled them out of the tre, you know, like that kind of thing. But it helps
to actually name and identify that because then we've pulled that out from ourselves, you know? So
noticing when you go there and in the noticing once it is, I feel like it's one of those things
once you see it's hard to unsee. Yeah. Because the question is, where does my body and energy go?
If all of a sudden immediate, like, I was up and now I'm down, you know, it's not like a wave of
actual, you know, depression I'm working through, but truly a moment like that we can trace back
and go, what happened? Well, she walked in looking better than me is what happened, you know?
Yeah. And then something happened and that's when I can catch that the comparison was going on
and then pull it apart and, and, you know, kind of laugh at it is, is, you know, one of my best
approaches is like, you are hilarious. Look at you trying to take me down there. Yeah. Yeah. And,
and that woman that walked in to you looked better, but maybe not necessarily to everyone might
look better. Well, and not only that, but being, you know, I do executive coaching a lot and, you
know, I have said this often, it's so true, the folks that look so perfect when you get under the
cover, like, there's the most pain there often because there is a need to be perfect in order to
cover up, right? And I'm not saying it about everybody, but those humans have their same experiences,
their same vulnerabilities, they don't feel like they're enough either. Yeah. You know, it's,
they do not have this thing handled just because. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. I think another,
another thing that, that kind of feeds into that, not enoughness is judgment from other people.
And then there's some people who actually, they feel like they benefit from maybe putting you down or
sometimes making you feel insignificant. Yeah. And to build themselves up, but like, really deep inside
that it probably terrors them apart. But how, how could a person handle a person like this? Like,
this toxic type of person? Well, I'll, I'll respond with two different things. So one is, there's a
chapter in the book, Beautiful Boundaries, Zero Apologies. And I know there's a lot of books out there
on boundaries right now, but I will say the more that I got a relationship with enough,
the more I felt totally entitled to draw boundaries like, and so I say this to say,
there is a choice to not be around those people. Now again, maybe, oh my gosh, but it's my, the grandmother
for my kids and I have to go to that house because they like the relate, that's, you know, so, but,
but for me, it was just really enlightening to understand I had power over those choices.
I might have had a friend I had for 20 years, but then you start to realize like, wait, this isn't
contributing to me. I can choose to not go to lunch, listen to that person, pick up the phone call,
all that kind of thing. So really learning to draw, you know, boundaries and, and little ones
and big ones, I think makes a big difference. But the other thing for me, and again, I talk about
this in the book is learning to stay in your energy lane while still having what I call bullet proof
grace. So for me, where I always get in a bind was this kind of binary thing like either I had to like
hate them and treat them like they were treating me or I had to accept them and feel violated all
over the place with their toxicity. And I found for myself, and this is particularly true in works
and settings, but also in personal life, there is a beautiful happy medium and the way that I picture it
is I imagine that I have on this bullet proof vest that is like stunning armor. Like if the armor of
the middle ages were designed strictly for women to make them attractive, like it's beautiful, right?
And so if they happen to shoot one of those energetic darts, which I'm highly aware of now and
away, I wasn't before, it bounces off. So I don't need to let that into my system at any place in time.
But I can still respond with what I consider grace now for me that it's just following my own values
of respect or whatever. Like that doesn't work for me because in my early days, I thought I had to
fight with them and change them. I thought like you'd have somebody who's a narcissist and I thought,
oh, I got to go educate them and fix them and blah, blah, blah, blah, you realize over time like,
yeah, that's not happening. People are going to be who people are. And so, but I could still just hold
to my own values and not indulge it. So that bullet proof grace is saying something like, you know,
this isn't working for me. If there's a, you know, if you decide that you want to be a little bit more
professional later, call me back. I'm going to hang up. I hang up, right? Or, um, you know, that's not a
fit for me or whatever it is, right? Like I can stay with that kind of graciousness, but I don't have
to allow any of it in. So the bullet proof grace is a live thing. And again, I find like the people that
you know, you kind of need to be around based on your life choices could be a boss could be a peer,
could be a relative that you're going to see it something. So at one in the one hand, that's for
like the live in the moment piece, right? I don't have to take their, it's, it's almost like they're
fishing, putting bait in the water. I don't have to bite it at all. I can just look at it and go, I see
your bait. No, thank you. Um, so that was a big piece of it. But this boundary work was huge as well.
And what I said was I feel like I did enough work to get good at the big boundaries. You know, like
somebody that massively ethically violated my standards, I could be like, no, you know, I'm not going to
blah, blah, blah, but where it was killing me, truly, physically, emotionally, mentally, in my body,
where all the small yeses that should have been small, those, hey, I've got this ticket to this event,
will you come with me? Well, I have no other conflict. So I should go even though that's not
fulfilling to me, even though my body needs rest, even though there's other things that would be better
for me. I'd feel like I have to say, hey, can you store this? I know you got extra room in your house.
Well, I don't want that clutter in my house. But how can I say no? I do have a big hat, right?
So all of those small nose learning to say those, like those were the seeds that planted, you know,
to me, these beautiful hedges, right, around my space to the point where I'm increasingly in a space of
being unapologetic about my choices, what I do, et cetera. And to be clear, it upsets people. Like,
hey, it's not the human they were used to. You asked me at the beginning about the me before.
Yeah, they're used to that one. And she says, yes, everybody and everything because she's trying to
get her needs met by being so important and so serving, right? So they don't always like it. And that's
you know, the beauty of that journey of enough is like, that's okay. Like my job is not to be them.
I don't need to fix them. I don't need to have them like me. I don't need to feel any differently
about it. I just get to, don't have to, I get to orient to the choices that I make.
I just froze up for a second. I didn't hear that last part of what you said. Oh, I was saying that
I get to orient to the choices that I make. You know, I don't have to. There's no have to in this,
but I get to. Yeah, that's, I love that. I always say in the work that I do, I talk about deep-level
self-care, surface-level self-care, and then deep-level and surface-level like the bubble baths,
you know, stuff like that. And then the deep-level self-care is the stuff that really, really makes a
difference. And I always talk about boundaries as the foundation of all self-care. Because once you
learn to like, set those boundaries and really honor yourself, everything else can build from that.
If you don't have boundaries, you're constantly being drawn down, drawn down, drawn down, you're
emptying your cup. And no matter what you do with that surface-level self-care to fill that cup,
it's still being drawn out. So it's almost like the boundaries are the foundation or that,
that the one thing that's going to block that leak from your cup. I love it. First of all, I love the
surface-level versus deeper level because I think too often that's the advice we're throwing or
is the surface-level advice. And without that solid foundation that you just described,
there is no space for it to land. All it does is, you know, put a little lipstick on something for a
minute, but it doesn't really get to that deeper space. And I loved how you described the
boundaries as the foundation, because I think you're right when the more that I define those, that
actually creates a space within which I can play. And there, I talk about in the book, you know,
so the research study of these kids on a playground. And if you, when there's no boundary on the
playground, nothing up around it, they will all stick to the middle of the playground. But when you
actually put fences around on the outside, they use the whole playground, they move in all those
spaces. And just as you were saying that, I'm like, that feels like that visual. Like, when I have those
boundaries, I'm actually creating the space for myself. I'm actually building that, that home, that
space that I get to exist in. But without it, I'm at everybody else's women, Beck and Colin,
vulnerability, which is not a good foundation to your point. Yeah. Yeah. It kind of protects your
energy. Yeah. And it makes it way easier to make decisions. And as you said, some people are
not going to like that. And the people who don't like it when you set boundaries are the people who
benefit from you having no boundaries, you know, maybe those are the types of people that you
don't really need in your life so much. You know, it doesn't mean you have to just like excavate them
out completely and cut them out. But I feel like when you start setting those boundaries, then
the right people end up being in your life and the other people just start to fall away.
It's so true. And it is almost magical to me. Again, when you talk about the before and after of
my journey, like as I, you know, left that place as I, you know, really built a life that worked for me
to the, to the work that you do as that journey happened, you know, it's like it becomes really
obvious over time what's serving and not serving. But it's amazing. I have some core relationships
right now that literally weren't in my life for five years ago in a meaningful way. Like, I knew the
people, but they weren't there and they are these trusted safe sources that are so unexpected but
delighted in such a gift. And it's not like I said, I need to go find, you know, just as I was more
myself, it was clear who delighted in that and who was threatened by that. And you had mentioned,
you know, sometimes it's the people who benefit from you not having the boundary totally true.
And there's also this other category, folks, who are so threatened because they need to make
their own boundaries and watching you do it terrifies them. I can't believe who does she think she is
because they can't imagine themselves doing it even though you know them enough to know boy,
you need some boundaries too, right? Yeah. Yeah. It could be hard work to do when you first start. I,
that was the one thing that really saved me from my people pleasing. Like, you know, I was,
I lived in fighter flight and I was just like, I always say I was the most professional people
pleaser there was on the face of the earth and it really killed me. And boundaries was something I
didn't have any, you know, yeah, yeah. So buildings was so hard. Yeah. But what's on the other side of
that once you get those in place and once you start doing that in your body that starts to feel safe
and you feel safe, you almost don't even have to try to set boundaries anymore because your body
automatically tells you, no, this doesn't work. And it's almost like it's against the grain. You can't
even do it anymore. Yes. It becomes natural to you. Well, and to that point, what I feel strongly
with the sense of enough as you set the, you know, you know, as she existed more in my life as I set
the boundaries, you think it's going to be limiting. Like you think that it's going to be when you choose
to not do the hustle, you think, oh my gosh, you're settling, you're this, you're that. But what I
found is it opened up endless possibilities that I had never imagined because I had all these rules
running in the background, right? Like, yeah, I thought maybe someday I'd write a book. But did I
think I'd crank one out in this period of time and be on the podcast talking about it? No, I did not.
You know, I launched this business. I did this book and I wrote and performed a one night only
one woman show. And like, that's not cool. Just because. Why not? I felt like it and it came to me,
right? So it's ironic that, you know, it's, it's the opposite of what we think. It's actually,
it expands the possibilities. Now I could choose to do that again or never do it again. Like I don't,
it doesn't have to mean anything to me, right? It was the, it was the thing I felt invited to at the time
and it brought me tremendous joy. So it filled up my cup. And that's like the, the scary thing of being
in an uncharted place and the most delightful thing is anything can be included too.
Yeah, I think that what I see, what I see in all of that that you said is like, you almost started
to engage in more playfulness in your life. Yes. Like kind of like going with it. And I feel like
it's so important to allow ourselves to be playful. And I know it sounds cheesy, but it's, you know,
I, one of the things I always say is growing up as a trap, at least what society's expectation of
growing up. And I got that quote, I was in a candy store in Brooklyn. And it was like, I think it was
a Swedish candy store that doesn't use like any preserved as I can't remember the name. And there
was a postcard and it said growing up as a trap. And I'm like, yes, it is a trap. I totally agree with
that. And so I tried to, when I start taking myself too serious, I try to just, I have it on my
refrigerator. And I try to remember that because like, okay, there's no reason I need to be this
serious. You know, like, let's just have fun. And like you said, it doesn't have to mean anything.
It could just be something that you're doing that day. And you're going to do that and you might
keep doing it. We might never do it again. Who cares? Well, and I forgot until you just said that.
But the other thing I started doing was drawing. So I have all these like black and white,
like big, just shaped drawings. And I even, and this was like early on in that adventure, I made T-shirts
out. So I have T-shirts that just have my artwork on them that I wear. They, you know, again, they've
no purpose. I made, I love cards like, you know, you'd pull cards for different things. I made ones
that had my artwork on it. And then it just had a phrase. And the whole point was just for people
to be with themselves and reflect on the shape and see what it meant to them rather than somebody
telling them, right? It was just, but a lot of that happened. No big deal really fast because,
again, I can, I get to, like, it does, I love that piece, that quote about the growing up, because I think
we think sometimes that little kid space means like not, not living, not being, oh, your child is
your immature, you're done, it's like, no, that's where all like source of creativity and love,
enjoy, and play can come from. And to real awaken that is a real gift, you know. Great. Yeah.
Definitely a real gift. Okay. Before we hop off, could you share something with us, the audience
and myself about yourself that is not something you've ever talked about on a podcast? Maybe people
don't know about you. I'll share something with you too. Something interesting about yourself.
Oh gosh. That's, I'm trying to think something that I don't, you know, I mean, the funny thing that
came to mind, so I'm just going to say it is, I was a cheerleader in high school. And that sounds like
such a, but I have so, you know, in these faces of peeling back our identity and things like that,
it's something, you know, I did and it was lovely, it was whatever it was, but like, it is such a
a front to who I think I am, because of the stereotype, right? Yeah. And so, but I think part of this,
the, the journey of enough is like reclaiming all of it, right? Like, yeah, that's also part of my
experience. And this is also who I am. And this is also, and you said earlier about, you know, that being
ourselves, I talk about this in the book, but that felt like a big to-do. I was failing in, right? And
because I didn't know, it was like some journey I was supposed to find her. And there she'd be,
but to this point and even this question, what I find out is like, you just engage and you discover
yourself, right? And so the, the person that enjoyed doing that, she is someone that loves a stage and
loves to be loud and take up space where most of my people, pleasing years, were like, watch from the back,
like, yes, I do a keynote or something like that. But by and large, I'm watching for danger,
I'm calculating everything. I don't give myself permission to just bodily exist in the world,
be loud, take up space and not care what anyone thinks historically, right? Yeah, I love that.
I do this, I do this little exercise with my clients sometimes where, you know, when they're feeling
stuck and they can't move forward, I tell them to go back and look at all the things that you did when
you were like, you know, like five to seven. And then when you were like a young teenager,
then a teenager and then so on and so on. And there's the speak of list everything you enjoyed.
And then look at all like the things in common. And then ask yourself if you're doing any of those
things. So like you were a cheerleader, but at the same time, you kind of are a cheerleader because
you're working with people, you're a coach and also you did that show. So you're like performing
on stage. So there's parts of us and all the little things that we do. And sometimes when you
you've lost yourself and you're trying to reconnect, going back and looking at all those things. For
example, so the weird thing about me is I'm a garlic farmer. I farm garlic, which is awesome,
right? But I mean, when I was little, one of my favorite things to do, I grew up on Long Island,
was playing on the beach in the sand. I still do that as an adult. I will get down in the sand and
build the sand castle and get covered in sand. I love having my hands in the dirt. Like I just
see the common things all across my lifetime. I will do it until the day I die. And so it's like,
you just notice those things about yourself. And if you're still doing them, then you were meant to do
them, you know, it's just a part of them. Well, and I love that exercise. I love the invitation that,
you know, it pulls out from you because just as you were talking, I was picturing. So I also
loved to have my hands in dirt. But like I have always loved trees. I used to draw trees when I was a
kid, but I just was flashing back. It was in when I was in the tween space and I was moving from,
you know, the little kid dresses and things to the baseball cap and tomboy and climbing trees. But like,
I was outside in nature, a lot of make mud pies. Yes, being in the sand, getting it everywhere,
getting dirty, all that kind of stuff. Like that is still home for me in a way that I don't think I
would have named quite, you know, until you said that. Yeah, no, I love, I love doing all that stuff.
I'm probably going to go out later on my garden, get all dirty. So, where could people connect with you?
Learn more about, yeah, uh, Koroluma, am I saying? Koroluma and, and purchase your book and, yeah, the
book is, so it's enough, you have to go enough by Barbara Burgess. There's a several enough books, but
it's enough finding peace in a world of distractions, hustle and expectations. And so, uh, on Amazon,
on Barnes and Noble, all the places you'd order online, if you want to learn more about the book and
get little kind of tidbit reminders, it's beenough.com. And that page that you land on will also take you
to Koroluma where I do executive coaching, consulting and all that good stuff. So, you know, all the stuff
about me is you can get to from benough.com. Okay, wonderful. And thank you so much for coming on. All
that stuff is going to be in the show notes. And I really, really do love that you shared so much
of your knowledge with me. And I enjoyed meeting you and spending time with you. It was a great, great
interview. I love it. Well, thank you so much. It's been an honor to be here. And I love that the
work you're actually doing with people is this like you are helping people, you know, tap that space
of Enoughness. So thank you for that. Thank you. I appreciate you that.
